Can RTC 3 replace CC/CQ/BF?
Hi
Currently we have ClearCase, ClearQuest, BuildForge, RTC and other vendor tools all over the place, and now we are standardizing enterprise tooling. There are a couple of questions like this: 1. Why shall we switch from CCCQBF to RTC? 2. Can RTC 3 completely replace CCCQBF? If not in RTC 3, do we know when can RTC offer the same functionality as CCCQBF? My feel right now is that RTC can almost replace CC, but lack of flexibility in CQ customization and some advanced features in BF. Can someone give me a list of things we can do in CQ and BF while not in RTC? 3. Can RTC/RSA replace VisualStudio.net and MS Team Foundation Server for .Net development? If not, what's missing in RTC or why VS.net and TFS is better? Thanks Jirong |
5 answers
Geoffrey Clemm (30.1k●3●30●35)
| answered Nov 17 '11, 2:53 p.m.
FORUM ADMINISTRATOR / FORUM MODERATOR / JAZZ DEVELOPER
Unfortunately, there is no real "answer". Each of these products do
various things very differently. Whether those differences matter to a particular organization, team, or individual, depends greatly on the preferences, needs, and current state of that class of users. It's like trying to answer whether to use C++, Java, Perl, etc, or some combination. Sometimes the uniformity of using just one language outweighs the lack of the features provided by another language. Sometimes a mixture is best. So each tool has a set of benefits, outlined in the published material for that tool. For example, ClearCase has dynamic views and multi-site, while RTC has change-set based accept/deliver and great WAN performance. You will want to map those benefits against the needs of your user-base. Because we believe that a combination of tools is needed for many organizations, we have invested heavily in connectors (synchronizers, bridges, importers) between our tools, and via OSLC, opened up those tools for integrations with arbitrary proprietary and third-party tools. Cheers, Geoff On 11/17/2011 9:08 AM, hujirong wrote: Hi |
But isn't IBM's plan to replace CCCQBF with RTC, at least in future? People keep on asking this question, how do we answer?
What's IBM's plan or vision? The customer need to know this. Are they going to co-exist for a long time? Thanks Jirong |
Geoffrey Clemm (30.1k●3●30●35)
| answered Nov 17 '11, 6:08 p.m.
FORUM ADMINISTRATOR / FORUM MODERATOR / JAZZ DEVELOPER
Now that question is easy (:-).
We (and I am speaking for IBM/Rational now, and not just my personal opinion) have no plans to replace CC/CQ/BF with RTC. In particular, there are capabilities in CC that will never be provided by RTC (config specs, dynamic views, and all that entails being a prime example). There are a large number of customers for whom ClearCase is now, and for the forseeable future, will continue to be, the best solution, and IBM/Rational is committed to support them in their use of ClearCase. With that said, we also expect the majority of CC/CQ/BF customers to enhance their existing environment CC/CQ/BF environment with RTC, because RTC provides extremely valuable capabilities not provided by CC/CQ/BF. A primary example is task management and planning. That is why we have invested so heavily in integrations between CC/CQ and RTC work items, to ensure that CC/CQ customers get a first class integration with work items and planning (and internally, RTC work items and planning are used by the CC/CQ development teams, while they continue to use CC for SCM, and CQ for change request management). Once you have enhanced your CC/CQ/BF environment with RTC, all teams will be integrated from a planning and task management perspective, through the common use of RTC for task management and planning. Individual teams will also have a choice to start using RTC/SCM instead of ClearCase for SCM, and RTC work items instead of CQ for change request management. We ensure that teams that have made different choices can interoperate with each other, through the various connectors (bridges and synchronizers) between CC/CQ and RTC. Over time, you may end up with a single SCM choice for all your teams, but for many organizations, you will see parts of the organization selecting RTC/SCM as their SCM of choice, while others selecting ClearCase as their SCM of choice. One of the things I personally do is help teams within an organization make that choice. Cheers, Geoff On 11/17/2011 3:38 PM, hujirong wrote: But isn't IBM's plan to replace CCCQBF with RTC, at least in future? |
Oh man.
First of all, thank you very much for your detailed explanation, and all your help in the past. Let me introduce myself first. I am an independent consultant specialised in SCM and Testing areas using IBM Rational tools, only Rational tools, for 10 years. A lot of time I work for Rational Canada to implement these tools for their big clients. My interpretation of your above is: RTC is an add-on and supplement to the existing Ratioanl's CCCQBF SCM solution, to enhance/complete the offering, and give customers more choices. Is this IBM's position? From RTC's similarity to VS and MS Team Foundation, I initially felt IBM copied (probably this word is too strong, but it's a totally right thing and I like it) the idea from MS, and I thought this tool was targeting the small and media companies for them CCCQBF is too heavy, or organizations who's embracing agile development process. I totally agree with this idea, that's a new business area. And I thought in a long run, IBM is going to enhance RTC to make it able to completely replace CCCQBF, since they are 20 years old, too many problems you can't change, and probably no longer suitable for today's development. CCCQBF is already too complicated for most of organization (OK, the problem is not the tool maybe, it's they can't find or afford or don't want to pay a proper person to help them implement in a right way). So they are hoping RTC will be easier. My client is trying to standardize all tools at the enterprise level, consolidating 50+ tools in use today. In SCM, we have CCCQBF, RTC, and all other vendors' tools such as SVN, PVCS, CVS, etc. The major concern is why we need RTC since we already have CCCQBF. We are consider ourself as medium (in size) to large (in complexity) traditional development shop, has no Agile at all. To me, I need a clear message on how IBM position RTC. I was hoping: 1. It's a definite choice for small and media company. Use RTC instead of CCCQBF for this level of companies. 2. It's a definite choice for Agile development. CCCQBF wasn't designed for Agile. 3. For large organizations, RTC doesn't have all the functionality/capability to replace CCCQBF immediately, but IBM will continue to enhance RTC to make it happen. At this moment, large organizations can use CCCQBF for departments using heavier process and RTC for Agile development. Personally, I don't want to have RTC running on top of CCCQBF, just to have that task management or whatever additional features. It will be too complicated. I can't even convince myself why we need that. No need to say tell the client to pay that additional huge amount of licenses fees. Thanks again. Jirong |
Geoffrey Clemm (30.1k●3●30●35)
| answered Nov 18 '11, 10:23 p.m.
FORUM ADMINISTRATOR / FORUM MODERATOR / JAZZ DEVELOPER
Comments below in-line.
Warning: Long posting (:-) On 11/18/2011 2:08 PM, hujirong wrote: My interpretation of your above is: RTC is an add-on and supplement to Depends on what perspective you are coming from. From a marketplace perspective, yes, that is exactly right. From an existing individual CC/CQ/BF customer's perspective, that depends. - If they require unique CC functionality (like dynamic views) then yes, RTC is an add-on and supplement. Minimally, RTC adds task management and planning. And if there are some teams that do not require that unique CC functionality (e.g. teams that have, or are thinking of switching to some alternative SCM anyway), then they definitely should look at RTC as the alternative, both because it is likely to be better than any of the other alternatives, and because they will be able to interoperate with the teams that continue to use ClearCase. - If they are a happy CC customer, then whether they switch some of teams over or not depends on whether the benefit from unique RTC-SCM functionality outweighs the migration cost of going from CC to another system. - If they are an unhappy CC customer, then they should look at RTC as a replacement. RTC was designed to do all the things that make CC customers unhappy ... if we could have architected both into one product, we would have. The fact is that the only way to make CC simpler/faster is to give up certain key CC features. So if you don't need those features, switching to RTC-SCM is a win ... if you do need them, then ClearCase is (and will continue to be) the only SCM system that provides them. From RTC's similarity to VS and MS Team Foundation, I initially felt To find the roots of RTC-SCM, you have to go back way earlier than TFS. In particular, start with The Asgard System (http://www.springerlink.com/content/w4763w262062h6u4/ ... unfortunately, it appears you have to pay to download the article, if anybody wants a copy, let me know, and I'll dig through my archives for a pre-publication version). At Bellcore, we implemented the Asgard System as a layer above ClearCase, and when I joined Atria in 1996, we implemented a prototype of Asgard as a config-spec extension. But we concluded that to really support change-set based SCM, we needed a new SCM core, so we built the Nucor system (by this time, Rational had acquired Atria). Although we had Nucor up and running, after being acquired by IBM, we concluded that we needed more than an SCM system ... we needed a system that integrated SCM, change-request management, task management, build management, planning, and that was extensible to handle requirements management, test management, and more. The RTC SCM component functionally is very similar to Nucor (actually, it is a simplification of Nucor ... no hierarchical or nested components ... at least, not yet :-). During this process we did check out MS TFS, but it couldn't do what Asgard did, much less what Nucor did or RTC-SCM does, so it had no effect on our design. and I thought this tool Yes, that is all accurate. We weren't trying to replace CC ... we wanted to provide an integrated ALM environment that could be used with CC/CQ, and that provided an alternative SCM for teams for which CC was overkill. And I thought in a long run, IBM is going to enhance RTC to make it In the area of SCM, after 20 years of experience, we have concluded that you cannot have an SCM system like ClearCase that provides the power of config specs and the magic of dynamic views, while also having it be simple and fast enough to outperform tools like Perforce and GIT that provide none of the advanced capabilities of ClearCase. But in addition to simplicity and speed, although you cannot provide all of the ClearCase magic without paying a performance/complexity cost, you can still provide magic (suspend, resume, flexible deliver targets, and in RTC-4.0, the "where have my changes flown" function, to name a few). CCCQBF is already too complicated for most of organization (OK, the And that is exactly right. If you aren't using CC/CQ/BF currently, you should first give RTC a trial ... if you need more, you can always select (or later add) CC, CQ, or BF to your RTC environment. If you are already using CC/CQ/BF, see the comments above. My client is trying to standardize all tools at the enterprise level, You need RTC to replace SVN, PVCS, CVS, etc. (that's an easy transition .... RTC is as simple or simpler to use than those other tools, while still being more powerful and scalable). That is not something you can do with just CCCQBF. Now you are down to just CCCQBF and RTC. Then whether some or all of your teams want to switch from CC, CQ, or BF to the corresponding component of RTC, will depend on whether they need the advanced functionality of those tools. To me, I need a clear message on how IBM position RTC. I was hoping: Yes, that is almost always right, unless the company has some very advanced SCM needs that require dynamic views. 2. It's a definite choice for Agile development. CCCQBF wasn't "Agile" isn't a determining factor. What matters is whether you need the unique functionality of CC, CQ, or BF. If you don't, then RTC is your best choice. And you may want just one of CC, CQ, or BF to complement what RTC provides ... it's not an all-or-nothing choice. 3. For large organizations, RTC doesn't have all the To be agile, you need the task management, planning, and dashboarding capabilities of RTC. Conversely, if you want a heavier process, you still want RTC for task management and planning (you can make RTC process as lightweight or heavyweight as you want). Whether you use CC depends on your SCM needs, not on whether you are agile (all of Rational development has switched to agile, including the groups that use CC for SCM, such as the CC and CQ teams). RTC will continue to be enhanced in all directions desired by RTC customers, as long as that does not degrade the performance and simplicity currently provided by RTC. Personally, I don't want to have RTC running on top of CCCQBF, just to RTC doesn't run on top of CCCQBF ... it runs next to them. If you don't need any of CC, CQ, or BF, then you can start with (or evolve to) a pure RTC installation. But minimally, you can stop trying to glue together dozens of low end and open source tools, to get the speed and simplicity that is all that some of your teams require. Cheers, Geoff |
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