Is it possible to discard the current content of a module and copy an old baseline as current content?
As an example: We have users who baselined a module and then started editing. After a while it was decided that the changes were wrong and should be discarded. So we want to reset the module to a certain baselined state.
There is no builtin functionality to reactivate an old baseline. A possible solution would be to make an additional module backup after every baseline, but this always requires admin activity.
I think that any dxl script will not help if we deleted and purged some objects, because in this case I cannot restore the object ID.
It seems to me that this action requires to manipulate the doors database internal file structure.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
tskaletz - Thu Aug 18 11:19:50 EDT 2011 |
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Re: revert module to old baseline kbmurphy - Thu Aug 18 16:26:16 EDT 2011
>Is it possible to discard the current content of a module and copy an old baseline as current content?
No.
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Re: revert module to old baseline Mathias Mamsch - Thu Aug 18 17:38:25 EDT 2011
This is tricky. If you manipulate the database files you can revert to an earlier baseline, the question would be if you really want to take the risk of database manipulation? Especially links make it hard to roll back to a baseline, since baselines in a lot of cases contain non-echoed links, which you would have to revert to echoed links and make sure you create the corresponding 'in-links' in the target module. So it is really not straight forward even if you are able to manipulate the database files directly.
A probably easier way (without manipulating the baselines) would be to make the absolute numbers of a module temporarily writable (by converting 'absolute number' in a normal attribute temporarily on database level). Then you could do a DXL script to roll back to the old state including the absolute numbers. Then make 'Absolute Number' a special attribute again.
If this is of general interest I could create a tool for that, but I would really not advise to go this way. 'Absolute Number' is probably a bad attribute to depend on in DOORS. Chances are that your requirement ID is 'Object Identifier' and that is the reason you want to get back your old ones. In this case you might want to try to introduce a new attribute "Manual Identifer" and a "DXL Identifier". The DXL Identifier will be a DXL attribute that will contain the 'Manual Identifier' if it is present, otherwise the Object Identifier. Then you can set the manual identifier of the objects to the values they need to have and use the DXL Identifier instead of 'Object Identifier'. This will allow you to correct your identifiers in cases like these.
Additionally you could just forget about the purged objects. Most people do not purge very often. If they do you might be able to simply make new requirements without any very bad consequences. Tell the people that is a tool restriction. But that might not always be a suitable solution.
Maybe that helps, regards, Mathias
Mathias Mamsch, IT-QBase GmbH, Consultant for Requirement Engineering and D00RS
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Re: revert module to old baseline ChrisAnnal - Tue Aug 23 09:22:34 EDT 2011
I'm not sure how many baselines you have, but I had a similar situation in a project that was just getting started, and only had one previous baseline. Here's what we did, since the changes made in the previous baseline were not something we desparately needed to keep track of:
1. Open the module and choose File -> Baseline -> Copy
2. The above will create a copy of a selected baseline of the current module - in your case you want the previous baseline, so select that one. (The default is "All Information", suggest leaving that selected).
3. The "new" module is a copy of the baseline you wanted to revert to, but you will need to link your objects in this new module all over again. (This wasn't a big deal in our case, since we used a "LinkByKey" approach and only had to repeat that step for the new copy of the baseline).
You might try the above as a possible solution. Hope this helps.
Chris Annal
SW Test Engineer / DOORS Database Administrator
Saab Sensis Corporation, East Syracuse, New York
chrisa@saabsensis.com
Chris Annal
SW Test Engineer / DOORS Database Administrator
Saab Sensis Corporation, East Syracuse, New York
chrisa@saabsensis.com
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Re: revert module to old baseline tskaletz - Wed Aug 31 05:16:53 EDT 2011
Thanks all for your help!
As a result I think there is currently no perfect solution.
-
To use a backup seems the most complete and most secure solution. But it needs much user discipline.
-
Next to this comes the copy of a baseline into a new module. This solution has just the drawback to loose the history.
-
The most complicated and most dangerous way seems to manipulate the database. I think that this should be only used as a last effort to recue a module which was messed up.
So instead of just using a technical solution we have to write a working instruction for making a baseline...
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Re: revert module to old baseline OurGuest - Wed Aug 31 07:06:55 EDT 2011 tskaletz - Wed Aug 31 05:16:53 EDT 2011
Thanks all for your help!
As a result I think there is currently no perfect solution.
-
To use a backup seems the most complete and most secure solution. But it needs much user discipline.
-
Next to this comes the copy of a baseline into a new module. This solution has just the drawback to loose the history.
-
The most complicated and most dangerous way seems to manipulate the database. I think that this should be only used as a last effort to recue a module which was messed up.
So instead of just using a technical solution we have to write a working instruction for making a baseline...
The best approach would be plan ahead.
1st don't make the error of going down the wrong path.
2nd If your prone to these type errors make an archive of the database before creating the baseline. Then you can recover to the point before the baseline.
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Re: revert module to old baseline RianWouters - Mon Sep 05 09:32:50 EDT 2011 ChrisAnnal - Tue Aug 23 09:22:34 EDT 2011
I'm not sure how many baselines you have, but I had a similar situation in a project that was just getting started, and only had one previous baseline. Here's what we did, since the changes made in the previous baseline were not something we desparately needed to keep track of:
1. Open the module and choose File -> Baseline -> Copy
2. The above will create a copy of a selected baseline of the current module - in your case you want the previous baseline, so select that one. (The default is "All Information", suggest leaving that selected).
3. The "new" module is a copy of the baseline you wanted to revert to, but you will need to link your objects in this new module all over again. (This wasn't a big deal in our case, since we used a "LinkByKey" approach and only had to repeat that step for the new copy of the baseline).
You might try the above as a possible solution. Hope this helps.
Chris Annal
SW Test Engineer / DOORS Database Administrator
Saab Sensis Corporation, East Syracuse, New York
chrisa@saabsensis.com
Chris Annal
SW Test Engineer / DOORS Database Administrator
Saab Sensis Corporation, East Syracuse, New York
chrisa@saabsensis.com
AFAIKS, File -> Baseline -> Copy does not copy the original Object id.
Anyone has a solution for that?
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Re: revert module to old baseline Mathias Mamsch - Tue Sep 06 03:20:22 EDT 2011 RianWouters - Mon Sep 05 09:32:50 EDT 2011
AFAIKS, File -> Baseline -> Copy does not copy the original Object id.
Anyone has a solution for that?
In the Telelogic Kitchen Tools there is a script, that will copy a module with absolute numbers intact. It will create objects in the right order (making dummy objects as necessary to fill the gaps), purge away the dummy objects, and then restructure the objects to have the correct hierarchy. The script is called "duplicate.dxl" and is in the Modules folder. To get a copy of the kitchen tools look at this post:
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=14484868�
Regards, Mathias
Mathias Mamsch, IT-QBase GmbH, Consultant for Requirement Engineering and D00RS
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Re: revert module to old baseline RianWouters - Wed Sep 07 11:53:23 EDT 2011 Mathias Mamsch - Tue Sep 06 03:20:22 EDT 2011
In the Telelogic Kitchen Tools there is a script, that will copy a module with absolute numbers intact. It will create objects in the right order (making dummy objects as necessary to fill the gaps), purge away the dummy objects, and then restructure the objects to have the correct hierarchy. The script is called "duplicate.dxl" and is in the Modules folder. To get a copy of the kitchen tools look at this post:
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=14484868�
Regards, Mathias
Mathias Mamsch, IT-QBase GmbH, Consultant for Requirement Engineering and D00RS
Thanks Mathias.
Tried it, but still have several problems using it on DOORS 9.3:
-
#pragma isn't recognized; removing the # helps of course
-
I get errors saying the "Absolute Number" attribute cannot be read
-
I get errors saying that a module with the same name exists; closing and opening the module seems to help
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Re: revert module to old baseline RianWouters - Wed Sep 07 11:59:40 EDT 2011 RianWouters - Wed Sep 07 11:53:23 EDT 2011
Thanks Mathias.
Tried it, but still have several problems using it on DOORS 9.3:
-
#pragma isn't recognized; removing the # helps of course
-
I get errors saying the "Absolute Number" attribute cannot be read
-
I get errors saying that a module with the same name exists; closing and opening the module seems to help
I finally arrived at:
...
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:211>
-R-W- DXL: <C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:60> no access to read attribute 'Absolute Number'
Backtrace:
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:211>
-R-E- DXL: <C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:80> An unexpected error has occurred: invalid absolute number
Backtrace:
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:211>
-R-F- DXL: <C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:80> internal error, please submit a bug report
Backtrace:
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:211>
-I- DXL: execution halted
Any suggestions?
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Re: revert module to old baseline llandale - Wed Sep 07 14:42:48 EDT 2011 RianWouters - Wed Sep 07 11:59:40 EDT 2011
I finally arrived at:
...
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:211>
-R-W- DXL: <C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:60> no access to read attribute 'Absolute Number'
Backtrace:
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:211>
-R-E- DXL: <C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:80> An unexpected error has occurred: invalid absolute number
Backtrace:
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:211>
-R-F- DXL: <C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:80> internal error, please submit a bug report
Backtrace:
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:211>
-I- DXL: execution halted
Any suggestions?
I cannot download the latest Kitchen but have one that I've labeled for v7.1. It appears this is the offending code:
while ( newAbsNum < oldAbsNum )
{
Object lastObj = newObj
newObj = create after lastObj
hardDelete(lastObj)
flushDeletions()
newAbsNum = newObj."Absolute Number"
}
You can find the file and edit it and find the offending code for you.
I'm guessing there is a timing problem with the hardDelete and the flush vis-a-vis the lastObj and newObj Handles, and that the newObj Handle is still pointing towards the recently purged lastObj location, which is corrupted but not erased. You should thus get some sort of "bad object handle" error but instead get what you got.
Its like pushing the open-door button and then charging into the room. Usually the door has had a chance to open completely (purge the object) but sometimes not.
If it were me I would try these in order:
1 move the flushDeletions AFTER the loop.
2 insert a "sleep_(100)" command to improve the timing. Play with the number, which is milli-seconds, 100 being 1/10th of a second and may not be long enough.
3 Get help from Mathias
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Re: revert module to old baseline RianWouters - Thu Sep 08 04:47:06 EDT 2011 llandale - Wed Sep 07 14:42:48 EDT 2011
I cannot download the latest Kitchen but have one that I've labeled for v7.1. It appears this is the offending code:
while ( newAbsNum < oldAbsNum )
{
Object lastObj = newObj
newObj = create after lastObj
hardDelete(lastObj)
flushDeletions()
newAbsNum = newObj."Absolute Number"
}
You can find the file and edit it and find the offending code for you.
I'm guessing there is a timing problem with the hardDelete and the flush vis-a-vis the lastObj and newObj Handles, and that the newObj Handle is still pointing towards the recently purged lastObj location, which is corrupted but not erased. You should thus get some sort of "bad object handle" error but instead get what you got.
Its like pushing the open-door button and then charging into the room. Usually the door has had a chance to open completely (purge the object) but sometimes not.
If it were me I would try these in order:
1 move the flushDeletions AFTER the loop.
2 insert a "sleep_(100)" command to improve the timing. Play with the number, which is milli-seconds, 100 being 1/10th of a second and may not be long enough.
3 Get help from Mathias
I downloaded the newest AFAIK at http://rapidshare.com/files/405757700/kitchen_tools.zip.html
Its labeled "Kitchen Tools for customizing DOORS with DXL V6"
The offending code is
for oldObj in all oldMod do
{
int id = oldObj."Absolute Number"
put(oldObjList, id, oldObj)
numOldObjs++
}
It appears I don't have read access to the "Absolute Number" of deleted objects.
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Re: revert module to old baseline RianWouters - Thu Sep 08 09:30:46 EDT 2011 RianWouters - Thu Sep 08 04:47:06 EDT 2011
I downloaded the newest AFAIK at http://rapidshare.com/files/405757700/kitchen_tools.zip.html
Its labeled "Kitchen Tools for customizing DOORS with DXL V6"
The offending code is
for oldObj in all oldMod do
{
int id = oldObj."Absolute Number"
put(oldObjList, id, oldObj)
numOldObjs++
}
It appears I don't have read access to the "Absolute Number" of deleted objects.
I managed to work around the read access issue by using instead:
int absolutenumber(Object o) {
Module m = module(o)
string prefix = m."Prefix"
string id = (identifier(o))length(prefix):
return intOf(id)
}
Now I run into several new issues:
-
Popups saying "Cannot create link: A linkset pairing restriction prevents the creation of links from MY -> Copy of MX"
(copyops.inc:621)
-
Popups saying "Cannot create link: No access to source object"
(copyops.inc:621)
-R-W- DXL: <addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:423> no access to read attribute 'Picture'
Backtrace:
<addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:680>
<addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:689>
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:167>
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:230>
About to give up...
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Re: revert module to old baseline llandale - Fri Sep 09 11:07:15 EDT 2011 RianWouters - Thu Sep 08 09:30:46 EDT 2011
I managed to work around the read access issue by using instead:
int absolutenumber(Object o) {
Module m = module(o)
string prefix = m."Prefix"
string id = (identifier(o))length(prefix):
return intOf(id)
}
Now I run into several new issues:
-
Popups saying "Cannot create link: A linkset pairing restriction prevents the creation of links from MY -> Copy of MX"
(copyops.inc:621)
-
Popups saying "Cannot create link: No access to source object"
(copyops.inc:621)
-R-W- DXL: <addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:423> no access to read attribute 'Picture'
Backtrace:
<addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:680>
<addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:689>
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:167>
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:230>
About to give up...
[] Company here prevents access to that web site.
[] I see no evidence that you cannot read attributes of deleted objects, not in v9304, v9201, or any earlier version. Its not possible to naturally modify the access rights of the system attribute "Absolute Number" (.. and I know of no such way, but I suppose Mathias could perhaps find a way to do it unnaturally).
[] I know of no way you can modify the access rights to the Object such that you can get the Object 'Handle' but lack any other read rights, such as to Absolute Number. However, maybe someone else knows of a natural way to do this.
[] The LinkSet restriction is resolvable via the module properties LinkSet tab.
[] No access to source object means you must have current 'Modify' access right now to create the link, open the module Edit, or shared and locked the section. However, it seems likely this is the same problem as the Attrs access above; you are in Edit but lack read right, and therefor modify rights.
[] Is it possible the script presumes Edit mode and you have not done that?
[] Is it possible the module is closed and the script still uses the now-corrupted Object handles? Perhaps: Follow link get ModName_, open module, get oOther object, close other module, use oOther.
My Hackles say you do have the Object handle but lack read rights, meaning there's a way to do that which I do not understand; or perhaps somewhere the module gets closed yet the script continues to access the now-corrupted 'Object' handles.
Find the offending Object and look at its rights. Put in some print statements including the name of the module of the object, and whether that module is really open.
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Re: revert module to old baseline Mathias Mamsch - Sat Sep 10 18:33:28 EDT 2011 RianWouters - Thu Sep 08 09:30:46 EDT 2011
I managed to work around the read access issue by using instead:
int absolutenumber(Object o) {
Module m = module(o)
string prefix = m."Prefix"
string id = (identifier(o))length(prefix):
return intOf(id)
}
Now I run into several new issues:
-
Popups saying "Cannot create link: A linkset pairing restriction prevents the creation of links from MY -> Copy of MX"
(copyops.inc:621)
-
Popups saying "Cannot create link: No access to source object"
(copyops.inc:621)
-R-W- DXL: <addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:423> no access to read attribute 'Picture'
Backtrace:
<addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:680>
<addins/kitchen/utensils/copyops.inc:689>
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:167>
<C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:230>
About to give up...
I do not get the code that you fixed. Why the heckles would anyone create an int absolutenumber(Object) function? From the error you are getting it really seems, that the kitchen tools code is slowly getting outdated. It seems DOORS 9 might have changed the "Picture" attribute to not even be readable OR some script at your company did. It would be a bad idea to duplicate a module without having complete access. In the other case you really need to do some digging, like trying to read the "Picture" attribute with the same code that produces the error and see what the problem is. You should add some error checking to the code. The picture attribute can be excluded since pictures are handled separately anyway. Or I am not even sure if pictures are handled correctly. You need to check for yourself. I only know that we used that script as a base for implementing a "branch modules" script and as far as I remember it worked pretty good, although it needed some tweaking.
Regards, Mathias
Mathias Mamsch, IT-QBase GmbH, Consultant for Requirement Engineering and D00RS
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Re: revert module to old baseline RianWouters - Mon Sep 12 11:43:01 EDT 2011 Mathias Mamsch - Sat Sep 10 18:33:28 EDT 2011
I do not get the code that you fixed. Why the heckles would anyone create an int absolutenumber(Object) function? From the error you are getting it really seems, that the kitchen tools code is slowly getting outdated. It seems DOORS 9 might have changed the "Picture" attribute to not even be readable OR some script at your company did. It would be a bad idea to duplicate a module without having complete access. In the other case you really need to do some digging, like trying to read the "Picture" attribute with the same code that produces the error and see what the problem is. You should add some error checking to the code. The picture attribute can be excluded since pictures are handled separately anyway. Or I am not even sure if pictures are handled correctly. You need to check for yourself. I only know that we used that script as a base for implementing a "branch modules" script and as far as I remember it worked pretty good, although it needed some tweaking.
Regards, Mathias
Mathias Mamsch, IT-QBase GmbH, Consultant for Requirement Engineering and D00RS
I turned out my baseline contained some Read locked data. That's why I could not read the Absolute Number.
Interesting (but useless in this case :-)) to know that the Absolute Number can still be calculated from the identifier.
But I got around it now using canRead(o)
Still working my way through the issues.
It turned out I had some obsolete linksets to deleted modules that the could not be removed easily.
Next problem is this one:
-R-E- DXL: <C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:182> A hierarchy to be converted into a table can only be 3 levels deep (table, rows, cells)
It took me a while to find out that the lexical ordering of the objects does not work correctly for deleted objects.
That's why the level structure is broken.
Not sure if this is a bug in the original script or caused by a V9.3 change.
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Re: revert module to old baseline RianWouters - Mon Sep 12 12:13:26 EDT 2011 RianWouters - Mon Sep 12 11:43:01 EDT 2011
I turned out my baseline contained some Read locked data. That's why I could not read the Absolute Number.
Interesting (but useless in this case :-)) to know that the Absolute Number can still be calculated from the identifier.
But I got around it now using canRead(o)
Still working my way through the issues.
It turned out I had some obsolete linksets to deleted modules that the could not be removed easily.
Next problem is this one:
-R-E- DXL: <C:\Program Files\IBM\Rational\DOORS\9.3/lib/dxl/addins/kitchen/Modules/duplicate.dxl:182> A hierarchy to be converted into a table can only be 3 levels deep (table, rows, cells)
It took me a while to find out that the lexical ordering of the objects does not work correctly for deleted objects.
That's why the level structure is broken.
Not sure if this is a bug in the original script or caused by a V9.3 change.
The problem seems to be that '-' comes before '.' while DOORS puts it the other way around.
For example, the original module has
26.15.6
26.15.6.0-1
26.15.6.0-2
...
26.15.6-1
26.15.6-2
this becomes
26.15.6
26.15.6-1
26.15.6-2
26.15.6.0-1
26.15.6.0-2
...
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Re: revert module to old baseline Mathias Mamsch - Mon Sep 12 12:43:40 EDT 2011 RianWouters - Mon Sep 12 12:13:26 EDT 2011
The problem seems to be that '-' comes before '.' while DOORS puts it the other way around.
For example, the original module has
26.15.6
26.15.6.0-1
26.15.6.0-2
...
26.15.6-1
26.15.6-2
this becomes
26.15.6
26.15.6-1
26.15.6-2
26.15.6.0-1
26.15.6.0-2
...
Heh ... I remember that we had exactly the same issue ;-) I have asked for a solution for this problem in the forum and Louie provided a fixed sorting routine for object numbers. We used that one and it was fine. See here:
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=14575079�
Regards, Mathias
Mathias Mamsch, IT-QBase GmbH, Consultant for Requirement Engineering and D00RS
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Re: revert module to old baseline kbmurphy - Mon Sep 12 19:51:48 EDT 2011 tskaletz - Wed Aug 31 05:16:53 EDT 2011
Thanks all for your help!
As a result I think there is currently no perfect solution.
-
To use a backup seems the most complete and most secure solution. But it needs much user discipline.
-
Next to this comes the copy of a baseline into a new module. This solution has just the drawback to loose the history.
-
The most complicated and most dangerous way seems to manipulate the database. I think that this should be only used as a last effort to recue a module which was messed up.
So instead of just using a technical solution we have to write a working instruction for making a baseline...
Although this discussion went down a very technical path and was worth having, I'd like to point out that my original response was correct. The answer I originally gave was no.
Also, OurGuest, making a backup of the entire database to do an experiment won't work if multiple modules/projects are being modified. Then you lose all of the work that was done between the time of the backup and the time you want to revert.
If people want to experiment with things, the solution is to give them access to a sandbox area and copy modules into it for them.
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Re: revert module to old baseline OurGuest - Tue Sep 13 08:05:41 EDT 2011 kbmurphy - Mon Sep 12 19:51:48 EDT 2011
Although this discussion went down a very technical path and was worth having, I'd like to point out that my original response was correct. The answer I originally gave was no.
Also, OurGuest, making a backup of the entire database to do an experiment won't work if multiple modules/projects are being modified. Then you lose all of the work that was done between the time of the backup and the time you want to revert.
If people want to experiment with things, the solution is to give them access to a sandbox area and copy modules into it for them.
Kevin, It is only a figment of your imagination that I said to recover the entire database. If a company does prudent archiving of the database, they can recover portions that are critical.
But more important is what is your point – you want pat on the back for saying –no when someone was wanting help. If you do then here is an atta boy.
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Re: revert module to old baseline kbmurphy - Tue Sep 13 09:59:08 EDT 2011 OurGuest - Tue Sep 13 08:05:41 EDT 2011
Kevin, It is only a figment of your imagination that I said to recover the entire database. If a company does prudent archiving of the database, they can recover portions that are critical.
But more important is what is your point – you want pat on the back for saying –no when someone was wanting help. If you do then here is an atta boy.
OurGuest, you didn't say to recover the entire database, but you also didn't say to recover a portion of it either. And I think it's frankly very bad advice to lead people down the path of messing with the actual database files for something like this, prudent backup or not.
Thanks for the atta boy!
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Re: revert module to old baseline OurGuest - Tue Sep 13 10:45:02 EDT 2011 kbmurphy - Tue Sep 13 09:59:08 EDT 2011
OurGuest, you didn't say to recover the entire database, but you also didn't say to recover a portion of it either. And I think it's frankly very bad advice to lead people down the path of messing with the actual database files for something like this, prudent backup or not.
Thanks for the atta boy!
If my words were leading the user down a path of destructions -- that user really has no business having a logon id -- there is a certain point when you assume the user passed first grade and has seen a computer before.
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Re: revert module to old baseline llandale - Tue Sep 13 12:22:36 EDT 2011 OurGuest - Tue Sep 13 10:45:02 EDT 2011
If my words were leading the user down a path of destructions -- that user really has no business having a logon id -- there is a certain point when you assume the user passed first grade and has seen a computer before.
Recovery is for disasters. If you have procedures that encourage folks to rely on recovery then you have a serious problem. Or actualy they have a serious problem.
I advise you not to let your customers know if you let your 1st grader manage their database. Maybe I'm just an old prude (and maybe not 'maybe') but I won't let my 6th grader, who types faster than I and can multi-task, even near my home computer let alone near production databases. (Digressing, I woulnd't let me near them either but I have no choice...)
If there's a convenient way to restore "part" of a database by all means let us know.
You can indeed purge a module and restore from a module archive built from a recent backup and then thus only lose perhaps two day's work on that module, but you have a significant difficulty re-establishing all the links for that module, expecially if those links have link attribute values.
You can indeed purge a project and restore that from an archive from backup, but again you have that nasty problem of re-establishing the links from outside the Project.
And you have the problem of re-establishing all the access rights and wizard layouts and attr-DXL and external links, bla bla bla.
Analogy: you can have a warranty plan that will replace your destroyed phone (like Gibbs) but getting that replacement is an ordeal: recovering you contacts, recent calls, text messages, and re-establing your blue-tooth and computer connections means you should not mindlessly let your 1st grader call Grandpa from the pool.
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Re: revert module to old baseline doors36677 - Tue Sep 13 12:35:30 EDT 2011 llandale - Tue Sep 13 12:22:36 EDT 2011
Recovery is for disasters. If you have procedures that encourage folks to rely on recovery then you have a serious problem. Or actualy they have a serious problem.
I advise you not to let your customers know if you let your 1st grader manage their database. Maybe I'm just an old prude (and maybe not 'maybe') but I won't let my 6th grader, who types faster than I and can multi-task, even near my home computer let alone near production databases. (Digressing, I woulnd't let me near them either but I have no choice...)
If there's a convenient way to restore "part" of a database by all means let us know.
You can indeed purge a module and restore from a module archive built from a recent backup and then thus only lose perhaps two day's work on that module, but you have a significant difficulty re-establishing all the links for that module, expecially if those links have link attribute values.
You can indeed purge a project and restore that from an archive from backup, but again you have that nasty problem of re-establishing the links from outside the Project.
And you have the problem of re-establishing all the access rights and wizard layouts and attr-DXL and external links, bla bla bla.
Analogy: you can have a warranty plan that will replace your destroyed phone (like Gibbs) but getting that replacement is an ordeal: recovering you contacts, recent calls, text messages, and re-establing your blue-tooth and computer connections means you should not mindlessly let your 1st grader call Grandpa from the pool.
You rant like a fool -- I wouldn't let you near my database either.
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Re: revert module to old baseline SystemAdmin - Wed Sep 14 19:08:57 EDT 2011 llandale - Tue Sep 13 12:22:36 EDT 2011
Recovery is for disasters. If you have procedures that encourage folks to rely on recovery then you have a serious problem. Or actualy they have a serious problem.
I advise you not to let your customers know if you let your 1st grader manage their database. Maybe I'm just an old prude (and maybe not 'maybe') but I won't let my 6th grader, who types faster than I and can multi-task, even near my home computer let alone near production databases. (Digressing, I woulnd't let me near them either but I have no choice...)
If there's a convenient way to restore "part" of a database by all means let us know.
You can indeed purge a module and restore from a module archive built from a recent backup and then thus only lose perhaps two day's work on that module, but you have a significant difficulty re-establishing all the links for that module, expecially if those links have link attribute values.
You can indeed purge a project and restore that from an archive from backup, but again you have that nasty problem of re-establishing the links from outside the Project.
And you have the problem of re-establishing all the access rights and wizard layouts and attr-DXL and external links, bla bla bla.
Analogy: you can have a warranty plan that will replace your destroyed phone (like Gibbs) but getting that replacement is an ordeal: recovering you contacts, recent calls, text messages, and re-establing your blue-tooth and computer connections means you should not mindlessly let your 1st grader call Grandpa from the pool.
Some courteous, sage and more importantly, entertaining advice here from Louie to which I concur.
Paul Miller
Melbourne, Australia
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Re: revert module to old baseline SystemAdmin - Thu Sep 15 04:44:54 EDT 2011 SystemAdmin - Wed Sep 14 19:08:57 EDT 2011
Some courteous, sage and more importantly, entertaining advice here from Louie to which I concur.
Paul Miller
Melbourne, Australia
Children -- each to your separate corners.
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Re: revert module to old baseline llandale - Thu Sep 15 14:49:30 EDT 2011 SystemAdmin - Wed Sep 14 19:08:57 EDT 2011
Some courteous, sage and more importantly, entertaining advice here from Louie to which I concur.
Paul Miller
Melbourne, Australia
Its not "to which", its "with witch".
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