DOORS Discussion Feature

I am working at a place that uses DOORS discussions heavily. Just curious what other users' thoughts are on it.

First, apparently there's a nice little "catch" that when you archive a project the discussions don't get archived along with it. Oopsie.

Secondly, like just about everything else with DOORS, the feature is OK, but the implementation is horrid. The discussion column is not easily legible and viewing discussions via the object properties is a joke.

Has anyone made any discoveries, epiphanies, etc. regarding this? Do users like it? Are there any further catches or gotchas?
kbmurphy - Wed Mar 04 12:44:25 EST 2009

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
sammyc - Wed Mar 04 15:00:29 EST 2009

What version are they on - the latest versions have improved the discussion feature.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
kbmurphy - Wed Mar 04 17:12:52 EST 2009

sammyc - Wed Mar 04 15:00:29 EST 2009
What version are they on - the latest versions have improved the discussion feature.

DOORS 9.1.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
sammyc - Wed Mar 04 19:31:35 EST 2009

kbmurphy - Wed Mar 04 17:12:52 EST 2009
DOORS 9.1.

The missing discussion content currently is not included with the archived project but it has been submitted as an enhancement request.

We have had good responses from customers who use the feature - no complaints about inability to read any of the content in columns or in the object props. There are several ways to view the content which allows for many different ways to manage discussions. Perhaps you have not utilized all of the means that are available. You can choose how much content to display in a column with much granularity by using discussion attribute settings. If you have specific details, please reply with attachments that might display what you are seeing as not desirable.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
SystemAdmin - Thu Mar 05 06:36:51 EST 2009

One item which I noticed after installing the Patch #2 (9.1.0.2) - after installation the Discussion Access in Database properties is grayed out - it is not possible to change the settings. Same goes for Discussion Access List in Module Properties.

So, Patch #2 for DOORS 9.1 does to have this "feature". I de-installed and re-installed my DOORS 9.1 environment couple of times to check this and was always able to reproduce the effect.

BTW - how one does write a case for DOORS (the old "Case Tracking" on Telelogic site) in this new IBM environment? Has somebody had experience in writing cases?

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
SystemAdmin - Thu Mar 05 08:19:03 EST 2009

SystemAdmin - Thu Mar 05 06:36:51 EST 2009
One item which I noticed after installing the Patch #2 (9.1.0.2) - after installation the Discussion Access in Database properties is grayed out - it is not possible to change the settings. Same goes for Discussion Access List in Module Properties.

So, Patch #2 for DOORS 9.1 does to have this "feature". I de-installed and re-installed my DOORS 9.1 environment couple of times to check this and was always able to reproduce the effect.

BTW - how one does write a case for DOORS (the old "Case Tracking" on Telelogic site) in this new IBM environment? Has somebody had experience in writing cases?

Couple of points more on DOORS 9.1.0.0:

1.) If discussions are disallowed in database properties then it means that no module can have a new discussion. But:
  • a module which has been created before this switch and which has had ongoing discussions can still have new discussions.
  • a module which has been created before this switch and which has not had ongoing discussions can not have new discussions.
  • a module which has been created after this switch can not ever have any discussions, even though discussions would later on be allowed in the database.
2.) Discussion columns created by Insert / Column can not be converted to DXL attributes by the DOORS tool, if somebody need discussion DXL attributes they have to be written from scratch.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
sammyc - Thu Mar 05 09:44:38 EST 2009

SystemAdmin - Thu Mar 05 08:19:03 EST 2009
Couple of points more on DOORS 9.1.0.0:

1.) If discussions are disallowed in database properties then it means that no module can have a new discussion. But:

  • a module which has been created before this switch and which has had ongoing discussions can still have new discussions.
  • a module which has been created before this switch and which has not had ongoing discussions can not have new discussions.
  • a module which has been created after this switch can not ever have any discussions, even though discussions would later on be allowed in the database.
2.) Discussion columns created by Insert / Column can not be converted to DXL attributes by the DOORS tool, if somebody need discussion DXL attributes they have to be written from scratch.

Your issues with the 02 patch have been verified and all of your notes have been submitted to support. I will provide a PMR number when they have been recorded by the support team so you can follow up directly - thank you for the feedback.

Can you please provide your customer name and ICN so we can track these accordingly?

You can submit technical service requests at this site now:
https://www-304.ibm.com/support/electronic/portal/upr?category=2&locale=en_us&cm_re=other-_-suprcn-_-request

You do not need to resubmit these via the TSR site. You can use the TSR site to check on the status once the PMR has been issued.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
sammyc - Thu Mar 05 09:47:03 EST 2009

SystemAdmin - Thu Mar 05 08:19:03 EST 2009
Couple of points more on DOORS 9.1.0.0:

1.) If discussions are disallowed in database properties then it means that no module can have a new discussion. But:

  • a module which has been created before this switch and which has had ongoing discussions can still have new discussions.
  • a module which has been created before this switch and which has not had ongoing discussions can not have new discussions.
  • a module which has been created after this switch can not ever have any discussions, even though discussions would later on be allowed in the database.
2.) Discussion columns created by Insert / Column can not be converted to DXL attributes by the DOORS tool, if somebody need discussion DXL attributes they have to be written from scratch.

Please do not post your customer name and ICN here - please send me a private message with that information.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
sammyc - Thu Mar 05 13:04:51 EST 2009

SystemAdmin - Thu Mar 05 06:36:51 EST 2009
One item which I noticed after installing the Patch #2 (9.1.0.2) - after installation the Discussion Access in Database properties is grayed out - it is not possible to change the settings. Same goes for Discussion Access List in Module Properties.

So, Patch #2 for DOORS 9.1 does to have this "feature". I de-installed and re-installed my DOORS 9.1 environment couple of times to check this and was always able to reproduce the effect.

BTW - how one does write a case for DOORS (the old "Case Tracking" on Telelogic site) in this new IBM environment? Has somebody had experience in writing cases?

This is not a defect - This can be resolved if you set the minimum client version to 9.1.0.0/9.1.0.2 (Right-click DOORS Database-> Properties->Login Policy) - enter the minimum client version you will use such as 9.1.0.2.

The following is mentioned in the DOORS 9.1 readme:

"You need to be using a Telelogic DOORS 9.1 Database Server, and the server must be configured to exclude DOORS 9.0 clients to make the new discussions functionality available. "

This explains why adding the 9.1 minimum client version makes it work again. However, this was logged as a documentation correction by our Product Development since it is not so clear that we need to set minimum client version.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
kbmurphy - Thu Mar 05 14:45:55 EST 2009

sammyc - Wed Mar 04 19:31:35 EST 2009
The missing discussion content currently is not included with the archived project but it has been submitted as an enhancement request.

We have had good responses from customers who use the feature - no complaints about inability to read any of the content in columns or in the object props. There are several ways to view the content which allows for many different ways to manage discussions. Perhaps you have not utilized all of the means that are available. You can choose how much content to display in a column with much granularity by using discussion attribute settings. If you have specific details, please reply with attachments that might display what you are seeing as not desirable.

Sammy,

No offense, but there are a billion ways DOORS discussions could be better. Off the top of my head:

1. Remove Discussions from the Object Properties window. Discussions should have its own dedicated window instead of its own dedicated tab.

2. Make the Discussions toolbar visible by default. Heck, all toolbars should be visible by default. Finding module discussions isn't intuitive (and I think really not necessary--you could insert all module discussions in Heading 1 of your module).

3. List all the discussions within a module (including discussions for objects). Kind of like an RSS feed, if you will. This would be one of the options in a discussions interface item like I talked about above.

4. Threading/coloring of the discussions, like they have on every single web forum that exists. (You don't really have this--it semi exists in the properties window but not in the column)

5. A Discussion Indicator icon, like a link indicator icon, instead of having to insert a column to see whether or not a discussion exists for an object.

6. If you're going to use columns to view discussions, how about a default button for "Insert discussion column" on the discussion toolbar, instead of me having to check and see if it exists for each object.

7. Insert Column>Discussion, click "Insert" doesn't do anything. You have to click "Browse" first. Why not a default option?

8. You may say you have threading, but there is no way to reply to numbered items. You just have 1, 2, 3, 4, but how can I reply to 2? I can't. I have to say what I'm replying to in my text...no true threading/way to reply to specific comments.

9. If you're going to have Module-level discussions, then why can't they be initiated directly from the DOORS Explorer instead of the properties window?

I know I may sound like a snob, but really, this is a much needed feature that has been implemented poorly, period. Discussions without threading replies? Seriously??? Have the designers of DOORS browsed a discussion forum in the last 10 years? Or am I out of line for thinking that the features of a discussion would be like they were on Web sites in 2001?

So, now I ask you--what am I missing? Even if I am missing something, DOORS is missing a whole lot more.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
sammyc - Thu Mar 05 14:51:33 EST 2009

kbmurphy - Thu Mar 05 14:45:55 EST 2009
Sammy,

No offense, but there are a billion ways DOORS discussions could be better. Off the top of my head:

1. Remove Discussions from the Object Properties window. Discussions should have its own dedicated window instead of its own dedicated tab.

2. Make the Discussions toolbar visible by default. Heck, all toolbars should be visible by default. Finding module discussions isn't intuitive (and I think really not necessary--you could insert all module discussions in Heading 1 of your module).

3. List all the discussions within a module (including discussions for objects). Kind of like an RSS feed, if you will. This would be one of the options in a discussions interface item like I talked about above.

4. Threading/coloring of the discussions, like they have on every single web forum that exists. (You don't really have this--it semi exists in the properties window but not in the column)

5. A Discussion Indicator icon, like a link indicator icon, instead of having to insert a column to see whether or not a discussion exists for an object.

6. If you're going to use columns to view discussions, how about a default button for "Insert discussion column" on the discussion toolbar, instead of me having to check and see if it exists for each object.

7. Insert Column>Discussion, click "Insert" doesn't do anything. You have to click "Browse" first. Why not a default option?

8. You may say you have threading, but there is no way to reply to numbered items. You just have 1, 2, 3, 4, but how can I reply to 2? I can't. I have to say what I'm replying to in my text...no true threading/way to reply to specific comments.

9. If you're going to have Module-level discussions, then why can't they be initiated directly from the DOORS Explorer instead of the properties window?

I know I may sound like a snob, but really, this is a much needed feature that has been implemented poorly, period. Discussions without threading replies? Seriously??? Have the designers of DOORS browsed a discussion forum in the last 10 years? Or am I out of line for thinking that the features of a discussion would be like they were on Web sites in 2001?

So, now I ask you--what am I missing? Even if I am missing something, DOORS is missing a whole lot more.

Thanks for the feedback!
I'll review these and submit the appropriate ones as enhancements to the discussion feature.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
kbmurphy - Thu Mar 05 15:07:53 EST 2009

sammyc - Thu Mar 05 14:51:33 EST 2009
Thanks for the feedback!
I'll review these and submit the appropriate ones as enhancements to the discussion feature.

Ok..while I'm on a roll, here are two more:

1. Built-in email notifications (i.e., without writing a trigger)...users should be able to subscribe/unsubscribe

and....

2. Discussion search! Throughout all modules! Heck, they probably aren't part of the module anyway (because they don't get archived) so how hard could this one be???

I think I should be charging you guys for these, but to me these are obvious. I realize I wasn't very specific on my first post in this thread, but to me these should be obvious.

What's really really sad is that I actually could make discussions more useful than in DOORS by setting up my own Django or Ruby on Rails server and using DOORS external links. That would give me about everything I've suggested.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
Tony_Goodman - Fri Mar 06 08:39:11 EST 2009

kbmurphy - Thu Mar 05 15:07:53 EST 2009
Ok..while I'm on a roll, here are two more:

1. Built-in email notifications (i.e., without writing a trigger)...users should be able to subscribe/unsubscribe

and....

2. Discussion search! Throughout all modules! Heck, they probably aren't part of the module anyway (because they don't get archived) so how hard could this one be???

I think I should be charging you guys for these, but to me these are obvious. I realize I wasn't very specific on my first post in this thread, but to me these should be obvious.

What's really really sad is that I actually could make discussions more useful than in DOORS by setting up my own Django or Ruby on Rails server and using DOORS external links. That would give me about everything I've suggested.

You tell 'em Kevin. Get in there my son!

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
sammyc - Fri Mar 06 14:02:20 EST 2009

SystemAdmin - Thu Mar 05 08:19:03 EST 2009
Couple of points more on DOORS 9.1.0.0:

1.) If discussions are disallowed in database properties then it means that no module can have a new discussion. But:

  • a module which has been created before this switch and which has had ongoing discussions can still have new discussions.
  • a module which has been created before this switch and which has not had ongoing discussions can not have new discussions.
  • a module which has been created after this switch can not ever have any discussions, even though discussions would later on be allowed in the database.
2.) Discussion columns created by Insert / Column can not be converted to DXL attributes by the DOORS tool, if somebody need discussion DXL attributes they have to be written from scratch.

I verified these points and was in touch with our Product Development team about this.

They have updated that currently there is no way to convert discussion columns into attribute/layout DXL.

As far as the scenarios under the first point are concerned, they are not an intentional behavior and the Product Development team has logged this as a defect.

However, if we restart the client each time the discussion access is changed to allow/disallow from the database properties, none of these hold true. Hence, this could be considered as a workaround for now.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
sammyc - Fri Mar 06 18:17:02 EST 2009

kbmurphy - Thu Mar 05 14:45:55 EST 2009
Sammy,

No offense, but there are a billion ways DOORS discussions could be better. Off the top of my head:

1. Remove Discussions from the Object Properties window. Discussions should have its own dedicated window instead of its own dedicated tab.

2. Make the Discussions toolbar visible by default. Heck, all toolbars should be visible by default. Finding module discussions isn't intuitive (and I think really not necessary--you could insert all module discussions in Heading 1 of your module).

3. List all the discussions within a module (including discussions for objects). Kind of like an RSS feed, if you will. This would be one of the options in a discussions interface item like I talked about above.

4. Threading/coloring of the discussions, like they have on every single web forum that exists. (You don't really have this--it semi exists in the properties window but not in the column)

5. A Discussion Indicator icon, like a link indicator icon, instead of having to insert a column to see whether or not a discussion exists for an object.

6. If you're going to use columns to view discussions, how about a default button for "Insert discussion column" on the discussion toolbar, instead of me having to check and see if it exists for each object.

7. Insert Column>Discussion, click "Insert" doesn't do anything. You have to click "Browse" first. Why not a default option?

8. You may say you have threading, but there is no way to reply to numbered items. You just have 1, 2, 3, 4, but how can I reply to 2? I can't. I have to say what I'm replying to in my text...no true threading/way to reply to specific comments.

9. If you're going to have Module-level discussions, then why can't they be initiated directly from the DOORS Explorer instead of the properties window?

I know I may sound like a snob, but really, this is a much needed feature that has been implemented poorly, period. Discussions without threading replies? Seriously??? Have the designers of DOORS browsed a discussion forum in the last 10 years? Or am I out of line for thinking that the features of a discussion would be like they were on Web sites in 2001?

So, now I ask you--what am I missing? Even if I am missing something, DOORS is missing a whole lot more.

I have submitted these as ER's - would like them tracked to your specific customer account? If so, please email me with your Company Name and IBM ICN and I will submit these under that heading and will also include your name if you like. You can send me a private msg with that info - else I will submit a general ER's without tracking to a specific customer account. Let me know!
Thanks!

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
SystemAdmin - Mon Mar 09 03:39:00 EDT 2009

sammyc - Fri Mar 06 14:02:20 EST 2009
I verified these points and was in touch with our Product Development team about this.

They have updated that currently there is no way to convert discussion columns into attribute/layout DXL.

As far as the scenarios under the first point are concerned, they are not an intentional behavior and the Product Development team has logged this as a defect.

However, if we restart the client each time the discussion access is changed to allow/disallow from the database properties, none of these hold true. Hence, this could be considered as a workaround for now.

OK, good to know. Thanks, Pekka

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
SystemAdmin - Mon Mar 09 08:19:43 EDT 2009

SystemAdmin - Thu Mar 05 06:36:51 EST 2009
One item which I noticed after installing the Patch #2 (9.1.0.2) - after installation the Discussion Access in Database properties is grayed out - it is not possible to change the settings. Same goes for Discussion Access List in Module Properties.

So, Patch #2 for DOORS 9.1 does to have this "feature". I de-installed and re-installed my DOORS 9.1 environment couple of times to check this and was always able to reproduce the effect.

BTW - how one does write a case for DOORS (the old "Case Tracking" on Telelogic site) in this new IBM environment? Has somebody had experience in writing cases?

Pekka,
I ran into the same problem when I installed the 9.1.0.2 patch. The problem is that you need to specify a minimum version which must be at least 9.1.0.0 or later. You specify the minimum client version of 9.1.0.0 in the database properties, Login Policy tab.

Don

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
kbmurphy - Thu Apr 09 11:55:02 EDT 2009

sammyc - Fri Mar 06 18:17:02 EST 2009
I have submitted these as ER's - would like them tracked to your specific customer account? If so, please email me with your Company Name and IBM ICN and I will submit these under that heading and will also include your name if you like. You can send me a private msg with that info - else I will submit a general ER's without tracking to a specific customer account. Let me know!
Thanks!

All,

I just wanted to give a little update. Enhancement Requests to Discussions were given to IBM by Sammyc. I just got a response on one of them:
----FROM IBM----
The Enhancement Request with ID TLOG#XXXX raised on your behalf has been rejected.

The ER Summary is as follows: "DOORS Shall allow users to reply to a specific comment in a discussion"

The intended usage of discussions is to have a single thread of conversation that can have a status of open or closed. A decision was taken that we would not support threaded discussions as this would cause confusion in terms of deciding if a discussion can be closed or not.
---END FROM IBM---

I replied to this and explained that I disagree with the conclusion. Seriously, it's like the DOORS developers haven't ever gone to a Web site where they could post comments.

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
Miamc - Mon Apr 27 15:38:35 EDT 2009

My new discussion problem:

We started using discussions with DOORS 9.0. We recently upgraded to 9.1. Since the upgrade, I have seen the following behavior:

I edit a requirement (object text) to which a discussion is attached.
I save the module.
I attempt to comment on or close the discussion.
I get this message: "The discussion includes a comment on modified data. Please reload the module before proceeding."
I close the module.
I reopen the module.
I get the same message.

Note that this happens on discussions created both before and after the 9.1 upgrade. It never happened prior to the upgrade.

When it was just the BAs using discussions, I was usually willing to simply delete the disucssion if the issue in it was resolved. But we have recently rolled out web access to our developers and it's important that we retain the comment trail (plus, it ought to work!).

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
adevicq - Wed Apr 29 06:11:30 EDT 2009

Hi,

I'm trying to use discussions in DOORS but I have a big crash each time I try to setup a module for discussions:

-R-E- DXL: <addins/forum/inc/maindb.inc:280> An unexpected error has occurred: doors.exe caused an EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION in module doors.exe at 001B:006CCE45

Backtrace:
+ <addins/forum/inc/maindb.inc:293>+
+ <addins/forum/inc/startup.inc:304>+
+ <Line:48>+
-I- DXL: execution halted

My client is in V8.3.0.1.
Any idea ?

thanks

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
dennis.chiang - Mon Jul 19 17:05:46 EDT 2010

I am running DOORS 9.1.0.2 client with 9.0.0.0 server. However, when I try to create a discussion, typing in summary and context, after clicking "save", I will see an error message saying "Unable to open database file" and no discussion is created. When logging in as DOORS admin, under Discussion Access tab, I have "allow discussion (access restriction can be set on modules)". When I go to module property, under Discussion Access List tab, the checkbox is unchecked and grey out.

Any idea?

Re: DOORS Discussion Feature
SystemAdmin - Tue Aug 03 05:44:30 EDT 2010

sammyc - Fri Mar 06 14:02:20 EST 2009
I verified these points and was in touch with our Product Development team about this.

They have updated that currently there is no way to convert discussion columns into attribute/layout DXL.

As far as the scenarios under the first point are concerned, they are not an intentional behavior and the Product Development team has logged this as a defect.

However, if we restart the client each time the discussion access is changed to allow/disallow from the database properties, none of these hold true. Hence, this could be considered as a workaround for now.

Regarding the fact that discussions columns cannot be converted to dxl - makes it nasty when you want to update or create new views with a discussionc column. I have not been able to get this done using dxl, so that means adding the column manually. Not nice if you have many modules to update!

/Kristian